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Offline sami  
#181 Posted : Tuesday, September 4, 2012 9:53:42 PM(UTC)
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Admin,

I just read the NYT article. It's sooooo good !!

I'm still giggling over this:


On “The Master” both actor and director took pains to emphasize Freddie’s animal side. Mr. Anderson said he showed Mr. Phoenix the first shot of the epic film poem “Baraka,” of a monkey falling asleep: “I said, ‘That’s you.’ ”

ahahahaha ! This is so funny Laugh



VENICE — The last time Joaquin Phoenix was at the Venice Film Festival, in 2010, he was many months into a supposed career transition — from acting to rap — that coincided with obvious weight gain, an unruly new beard and several widely noted instances of erratic public behavior. Much of this was chronicled in “I’m Still Here,” a supposed documentary by Mr. Phoenix’s friend Casey Affleck, and all of it was later revealed as a satirical performance-art project of sorts.

Mr. Phoenix, 37, is back here this year, and things are a bit more straightforward this time. He’s the star of the festival’s most eagerly anticipated movie, “The Master,” directed by Paul Thomas Anderson, and to judge from the response from critics and audiences here, a leading contender for its best actor prize, which can only bode well as awards season gets under way.

Before its premiere on Saturday there had been speculation that “The Master,” Mr. Anderson’s first film since “There Will Be Blood” in 2007, would be an exposé of Scientology. But its story of a new fringe religion in postwar America, while inspired by Dianetics and the early career of L. Ron Hubbard, is merely the backdrop for an exploration of man’s animal nature and civilization and its discontents. These issues are refracted through the relationship between a seductive guru (Philip Seymour Hoffman) and a follower with a wild streak, played by Mr. Phoenix in his first screen appearance in two years since “I’m Still Here.”

In an interview on Sunday at the Excelsior Hotel here, Mr. Phoenix, casually dressed in a denim shirt and facial hair long gone, said that his last film — although greeted in most quarters with befuddlement or hostility — represented an important turning point. “It completely broadened my perspective on acting,” he said, seeming much more relaxed than at the previous day’s news conference, during which he spoke only once and wandered offstage at one point. “I wanted to have that same experience that anything is possible.”

Looking to re-establish himself, Mr. Phoenix read — and passed on — many scripts. Freddie Quell in “The Master” was the first role that drew his interest. A troubled World War II veteran, Freddie is both the feral opposite number of and the unlikely kindred spirit to Mr. Hoffman’s smooth-talking peddler of salvation, Lancaster Dodd.

In an interview on Sunday, Mr. Anderson said he wrote the role of Dodd for Mr. Hoffman, his regular collaborator; for Freddie, he knew he needed “a formidable opponent for Phil.” The prospect of working with Mr. Phoenix excited them both: “I remember Phil saying, ‘Joaquin scares me, in a good way,’ ” Mr. Anderson said.

Mr. Phoenix started as a child actor, and since his breakthrough role, at 21, in Gus Van Sant’s “To Die For,” he has emerged from the shadow of his late brother River, cultivating a reputation as one of Hollywood’s most intense young actors. He has two Academy Award nominations, for playing the sneering villain in “Gladiator” and for his fully committed portrayal of Johnny Cash in “Walk the Line.” But in none of his previous roles does he approach the sheer volatility and physicality that he brings to “The Master.”

“I knew he was going to be good, but I didn’t know he was going to do this,” Mr. Anderson said. “I was unprepared for the level of inventiveness and creative energy that comes out of him. And the level of discipline. By all appearances it looks like he has no discipline, but that’s just a cover story.”

Early on, Mr. Phoenix said: “I told Paul I wasn’t going to self-modulate in any way. I wanted to just expose the id.”

The lessons of “I’m Still Here” inspired him to experiment. “Going out on a stage publicly and not knowing how people are going to react to you — once I experienced that, it made me feel much more comfortable about going into a scene,” Mr. Phoenix said. On “The Master” he tried out different interpretations of lines and scenes, even going for “things that might seem absurd or stupid or don’t make sense or are obviously, quote-unquote, out of character.”

Mr. Anderson said that for much of the shoot, Mr. Phoenix stayed in character. Mr. Phoenix, for his part, dislikes the actorly pretensions of the phrase — “I just hate hearing ‘staying in character,’ ” he said — but he acknowledged the importance of sustaining tension in this case. “Freddie was so extreme,” he said. “I couldn’t physically release and let my body relax, then go back into it.”

His reliance on instinct meant that the first takes were often the most electrifying. “He’s pretty bad at faking it,” Mr. Anderson said. “If a moment gets lost, it’s pretty hard for him to come back to shore. It became clear to me that you better get your lighting right the first time.”

Mr. Phoenix spoke of his rejuvenated career — next up: films with James Gray and Spike Jonze — in terms of a renewed appetite for risk. “For some people acting is a sunset stroll on a beach, and for others it’s scaling a cliff or jumping out of a plane,” he said. “In so much of my life, I take sunset strolls on the beach. When I act, I like the idea of jumping out of the plane.”

On “The Master” both actor and director took pains to emphasize Freddie’s animal side. Mr. Anderson said he showed Mr. Phoenix the first shot of the epic film poem “Baraka,” of a monkey falling asleep: “I said, ‘That’s you.’ ”

For a scene in which Freddie and Lancaster are thrown into neighboring prison cells — sending Freddie into a head-banging, toilet-smashing rage — Mr. Phoenix studied online videos of wild animals in captivity. “You can see that their brains don’t seem to be functioning anymore,” he said. “It’s pure reaction, and you see the muscles going. I knew that’s what I wanted to capture — they’re hurting themselves, and they don’t even know that, but something inside is saying get out, get out.”

That scene was not supposed to end with Mr. Phoenix stomping on the commode.

“I didn’t intend to break the thing,” Mr. Phoenix said. “I didn’t know that was possible.”




---

It's so interesting the effect that ISH has had in Joaquin's acting. It seems like there is an after and before. It helped him break his own boundaries in a way. GREAT !!!

Edited by user Tuesday, September 4, 2012 10:02:53 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline joy  
#182 Posted : Thursday, September 6, 2012 6:13:13 AM(UTC)
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Wow! so much to read! I still haven't watched any of The Master trailers but feeling the excitement reading these!

"....diabolical unpredictability, its paroxysms of emasculated rage." Blimey!

"Joaquin scares me, in a good way". I can imagine PSH like Joaquim Bardem, sitting in his room and deconstructing Joaquin so that he wasn't nervous about meeting him. BigGrin

I wonder which role PTA offered Joaquin in 'There Will Be Blood'? I wonder if it was Eli Sunday, the preacher? And just imagine....if Jeremy Renner had stayed on the film.....no Joaquin!! And a totally different experience!

“For some people acting is a sunset stroll on a beach, and for others it’s scaling a cliff or jumping out of a plane,” he said. “In so much of my life, I take sunset strolls on the beach. When I act, I like the idea of jumping out of the plane.” Looks like Joaquin heard about you wondering if he liked the beach, Sami. BigGrin



When do you all get to see the film? It opens here (I'm in the UK if you haven't sussed) and it doesn't open until November...the 9th, I think. I probably won't go to see it straight away though because I don't like crowded cinemas and I think this film will be packed out for the first few showings.


As for your new-found love for PTA, Sami... Blink Confused More Joaquin for the rest of us! Laugh Here..... have a cup of chamomile tea for your fluttering heart and a cool flannel for your fevered brow. BigGrin


Look into these eyes...

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Offline admin  
#183 Posted : Thursday, September 6, 2012 8:55:55 AM(UTC)
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Joy, not sure if there are many cinemas in the UK capable of projecting in 70mm? Any local to you that you know of? From the reviews, it seems this film is a must to be seen in 70mm.
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Offline sami  
#184 Posted : Thursday, September 6, 2012 1:22:09 PM(UTC)
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admin wrote:
Joy, not sure if there are many cinemas in the UK capable of projecting in 70mm? Any local to you that you know of? From the reviews, it seems this film is a must to be seen in 70mm.


In my town there are 2 cinemas showing it. They both typically show independent films and they are not "modern."
Offline joy  
#185 Posted : Friday, September 7, 2012 3:59:41 AM(UTC)
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Here are a couple of lists of 70mm cinemas worldwide.

http://www.redballoon.net/current70mmforeign.html

http://www.redballoon.net/current70mmus.html

If they don't show the film nearby I'll go to London, which won't be a problem because I go there quite a lot anyway. BigGrin


Will Joaquin be at TIFF?

Edited by user Friday, September 7, 2012 4:39:11 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline admin  
#186 Posted : Friday, September 7, 2012 10:24:10 AM(UTC)
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More clips released from The Master film! (Although it's quite possible this footage doesn't appear in the final film)

The Master - Gone to China


The Master - Inkblot test


Edited by user Friday, September 7, 2012 10:29:39 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline admin  
#187 Posted : Friday, September 7, 2012 10:58:01 AM(UTC)
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More praise for The Master film:

"The first film of the fall season is also the best movie I've seen all year. If things get better, we're in for creative nirvana. As the story of a 1950s cult leader (a towering, terrific Philip Seymour Hoffman), who mentors a disturbed World War II Navy veteran (Joaquin Phoenix, a volcano in full eruption in the performance of his career), The Master takes on the business of religion. Scientology? You be the judge. The names have been changed to ward off fanatical unrest. No matter. It's the human element that bleeds onscreen in this mindbending cinematic landmark. You can't take your eyes off Phoenix and Hoffman – acting doesn't get better than this. Writer-director Paul Thomas Anderson is a rock star, the artist who takes us to the limit. If you foolishly didn't think so after Hard Eight, Boogie Nights, Magnolia, Punch-Drunk Love and There Will Be Blood, The Master should erase all doubt."

ROLLING STONE MAGAZINE, PETER TRAVERS' 2012 FALL MOVIE PREVIEW: "The Master"

Edited by user Friday, September 7, 2012 11:13:15 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline sami  
#188 Posted : Saturday, September 8, 2012 3:11:23 AM(UTC)
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   Johnny Cash in "Walk the Line," the ruthless emperor's son Commodus in "Gladiator," and now a violent, wayward World War II veteran, Freddie Quell, in Paul Thomas Anderson's "The Master": Does Joaquin Phoenix play dangerous, intense and troubled so well because it's not much of a stretch?
The actor has blurred the boundary between difficult professional and personal personas for years, cutting off photo shoots and appearing disdainful of interviewers. Most notably, there was his long dive into performance art in 2010 — in which he grew a shaggy beard, went monosyllabic in TV appearances and pretended to quit acting, delving into a world of debauchery to transform himself into a rapper for the film "I'm Still Here."  

 So it was a bit of a jolt to find Phoenix, 37, light, open and impish on the Chateau Marmont patio on a recent Saturday morning. Dressed in a rumpled light blue dress shirt, dark blue cords and heavy black boots that seem inappropriate for an 80-degree day, Phoenix came armed with a pack of American Spirit cigarettes, a lighter and a surprising sense of mischief.  

  "I don't want to disappoint you, so I'm going to smoke," he joked, moments after the Hollywood retreat granted special dispensation to the Oscar-nominated actor to light up.
Perhaps Phoenix's buoyancy has something to do with the mounds of early praise and Academy Awards talk already being heaped on "The Master," which opens Friday. Though some early viewers have found the film mystifying and frustratingly complex, Phoenix's unpredictable performance opposite Philip Seymour Hoffman has been roundly lauded.
Hoffman plays Lancaster Dodd, a.k.a. Master, a man with a controlled, erudite air who in the late 1940s pens a book not unlike L. Ron Hubbard's "Dianetics" and starts to amass a following verging on cultish. Into his orbit comes Phoenix's Freddie, a giant ball of impulse who seems to be perennially fighting or fornicating. A kinetic, dangerous man-child, it's unclear what has left Freddie so profoundly unable to function well as a human being — perhaps it's the horrors of war, a turbulent childhood or the toxic amounts of homemade moonshine he's constantly consuming. 

  An early, intense scene sets up their dynamic: The Master wants to assess Freddie's personality by asking him a series of questions, and orders Freddie not to blink when answering. At one point, the Master asks: "Are you unpredictable?" and Freddie's reply is supposed to be a scream.
But Phoenix fretted that it would ring false.
"I was worried about it for months," he recalled. "This is horrible. I'm stuck on this little piece. I'm just going to have to do something that feels unexpected for me. Of course, then I'm just like a little 8-year-old. Paul and I are both stupid, little 8-year-olds that love potty jokes and things of that nature."
Phoenix's solution? Ask the prop guy to acquire a flatulence machine (yes, they make such things) to alleviate the tension during the moment.
"I was just going to do this for me, for the first couple of takes, to kill the expectation of the scream, because I felt this pressure to do this thing that I couldn't do."
Hoffman delivered the line, Anderson cued the machine and everyone cracked up. "We did it, we laughed, and then we just kept doing it and we never went back to the screaming thing," said Phoenix, whose improvisational flatulence made the final cut. The scream was killed. "It's certainly not the scene where we finish and everyone is saying, 'Ooh, brilliant.' We were little stupid 8-year-olds laughing at each other's fake farts."
"The Master" is Phoenix's first film to arrive in theaters since "I'm Still Here," but it's not the only thing he's been at work on. He's made a movie with director Spike Jonze's called "Her" in which he plays a lonely writer who falls in love with his personal computer's new operating system. And he will appear in "Nightingale," a new film from frequent collaborator James Gray.
Last week, Gray showed a short clip of "Nightingale" at the Telluride Film Festival; it features Phoenix as yet another dark, complex character and stars Jeremy Renner and Marion Cotillard.
The films are a welcome opportunity for Phoenix, who initially found Hollywood giving him a bit of a cold shoulder when the bizarre fake documentary premiered.
"For some time, people didn't know if [the gag] was continuing in some way. I would go in for meetings and they were not sure if I was [messing] with them or not," said Phoenix. "There was a noticeable drop in quality from things that I had looked at before 'I'm Still Here.' I thought, 'Wow, I've certainly limited myself in terms of the kind of work I can do. I can still get a job, but it's not the job I want to get.'"
Yet Phoenix says he doesn't regret the year and a half he spent on the film with his close friend and brother-in-law, Casey Affleck. The whole process required the very private actor, who lives in Los Angeles, to do many things outside his comfort zone. He spent hours online reading about himself to track his "character's" public demise, and he had to make a spectacle of himself, a challenge for someone who relishes that he can "cruise through" life rarely getting recognized.
As it turned out, "The Master" — and Anderson's meditative filmmaking style — proved to be a superb segue back into more traditional projects, the actor said.
"I was so fortunate to make this film after 'I'm Still Here' because in many respects, there were a lot of unknowns that we could discover in the moment. That was very similar to where we would go" in "I'm Still Here," he said. "With 'I'm Still Here' we threw all the rules out the window. That was so exciting. It was so much fun to make. It was horrible, but it was great. And I was so nervous about what it was going to be like to be back on a movie set."
For Anderson — whose "Magnolia," "Boogie Nights" and "There Will Be Blood" have earned him five Oscar nominations — Phoenix was the actor he had been looking to work with for years. Anderson offered him parts in "Boogie Nights" and "Punch Drunk Love" only to have Phoenix turn them down. Finally he landed him for "The Master," knowing that putting him up against Hoffman would make for some kind of actor's master class.
Anderson admits that there were times when he didn't really write much for Phoenix to do, but that wouldn't stop him from creating something original.
"It's like giving away a bit of a magic trick," said Anderson, speaking by phone from Paris, between his promotional duties for the film in Venice and Toronto. "I would hate to expose something, but I'd be lying if I said he wasn't incredibly methodical and thoughtful about what he was doing but probably only in service of being able to then be completely unpredictable."
While the two never discussed at length what Freddie should look like, it quickly became clear to Anderson that Phoenix was losing a significant amount of weight to play this alcoholic fresh from the war. Phoenix also maintained an awkward gait, where he pulled his pelvis back, sucked in his stomach and placed his hands on his waist — a walk Anderson loved but never questioned.
"It's like when you are playing make-believe with your kids and you are so tempted to ask them what they are thinking or why they are doing something but the last thing you want to do is break the spell," said Anderson, who realized in the editing room that Phoenix was perhaps holding onto his kidneys because they hurt from either a war injury or from all the booze. "You just sort of hope they will keep doing it and they won't stop. Whatever he was doing, it felt so right and looked so good, the last thing I wanted to do was stop and break the spell of make-believe and ask questions of why."
According to Phoenix, Anderson doesn't worry about continuity. The writer-director is open to improvisation and often scenes that might take up one-eighth of a page can shoot for a day and a half.
"Paul just really let me waste film," said Phoenix, who began acting at age 8 and was first recognized for his role as a sullen teenager in 1989's Steve Martin comedy "Parenthood." Yet until he starred opposite Nicole Kidman in Gus Van Sant's "To Die For," he was best known as River Phoenix's younger brother and the person who called 911 when the popular actor overdosed in 1993 at the Viper Room. "Sometimes we would do three takes and they would all be completely different. I like that. I feel like everything you learn as an actor growing up is wrong. You're supposed to hit your mark, find your light and know your lines. Those are all things that just make things wooden, dull and boring."
Because Freddie is such an impulsive, dangerous character — and Anderson never tells the audience why Freddie is the way he is — Phoenix wasn't able to put him together in what he calls the traditional way: analyzing the character, understanding why he did certain things, studying the time period.
"There were a lot of times when we asked ourselves why he did certain things he did and we couldn't really come up with an answer. And that's OK," Phoenix said. "Once I accepted that he was just a dog, just a monkey who is ruled by instinct or impulse is when I was able to let go and stop trying to force my ideas on it."
'He's incredibly shy'

Gray, who worked with Phoenix on "The Yards," "We Own the Night" and "Two Lovers" before "Nightingale," describes his close friend as extremely dedicated and introverted. "He's incredibly shy, which you wouldn't believe. People don't believe that. They think it's an act or something," said Gray, adding that once before a television interview he was doing with Phoenix, the actor vomited in the green room because of nerves.  

Yet the director is constantly surprised by what the actor will do for a part. "He will do anything that the film requires. He'll do anything the character requires. He'll do anything you ask of him. He doesn't suffer fools gladly, of course, which is to say that he's constantly yelling at me and calling me an idiot, but his dedication is second to none."
Phoenix's transition from performance art back into traditional films feels completely natural to Gray. "I think he's driven by things that other actors are not driven by," said Gray. "He's driven by the experience he thinks he will have in exploring a side of human behavior that is not frequently explored. I don't think he thinks much about the end product."
One thing Phoenix said he didn't do to prepare for "The Master" was to delve into Scientology, the body of beliefs and related practices that was created by Hubbard and whose adherents including a number of Hollywood personalities, most notably Tom Cruise. The actor said he and Anderson spent no time discussing cults or the celebrity-centric religion.   

  "I thought, 'Well, it's something that my character is not familiar with, so it's not something that I really want to understand.' I don't think Freddie is involved with them, has given over to them and has bought it. I don't think he understands it at all," he said.
Though much of the chatter surrounding the film has focused on its parallels to the often-controversial Scientology, Phoenix says he doesn't see it as a movie about religion. "Even if Paul felt inspired by something, I think it was just inspiration, and I don't think it's fair to the film or fair to Scientology," he said. "I don't think the movie is about Scientology. I don't even think it's about a cult or religion. I think it's more about a relationship between these two men and this love affair that they have."
Yet even after the months of preparation and the lengthy production schedule throughout California, Phoenix is not convinced he understands Freddie more clearly than when he first read Anderson's script. That uncertainty may explain some of his discomfort to this day.
"To be honest, I don't know if I know more about the character then I did when I started. I don't know if I ever understand things in that way. It's something I always struggle with in interviews. You want these concrete answers to things that I don't think I have nor do I want."
And with that, he dropped a $20 bill on the table, offered a firm handshake and a sly grin. Slipping on his Ray-Bans, Phoenix escaped out a service entrance to reclaim his private life once again. 

http://www.latimes.com/e...909,0,5184139,full.story
Offline admin  
#189 Posted : Saturday, September 8, 2012 4:27:47 AM(UTC)
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The Venice film festival result are in!

Best Actor: Shared by Joaquin Phoenix and Philip Seymour Hoffman for The Master
Best Director: Paul Thomas Anderson for The Master

Venice Film Festival: Joaquin Phoenix takes Actor prize

Looks like The Master missed out on Best film award at Venice because of a technicality! Glare

"According to The Hollywood Reporter, the jury at the festival, led by Heat director Michael Mann, had originally awarded the top prize of the Golden Lion to Anderson's film, only to change the winner to Korean drama Pieta.

The switch was reportedly due to new festival rules prohibiting a film garnering more than two major awards, and the film had already been awarded the Silver Lion prize for directing, with the acting award being shared jointly between Phoenix and Hoffman."


Venice 2012: 'The Master' has top prize 'rescinded'

Edited by user Saturday, September 8, 2012 5:09:09 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline joy  
#190 Posted : Saturday, September 8, 2012 6:21:20 AM(UTC)
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Oh, that's a shame, Admin. But CONGRATULATIONS! to Joaquin and PSH for their award. Cool And to PTA for his! Cool

Thanks for posting the new trailers. Watch them later.

Thanks for the article, Sami. I like this:

One thing Phoenix said he didn't do to prepare for "The Master" was to delve into Scientology, the body of beliefs and related practices that was created by Hubbard and whose adherents including a number of Hollywood personalities, most notably Tom Cruise. The actor said he and Anderson spent no time discussing cults or the celebrity-centric religion.

"I thought, 'Well, it's something that my character is not familiar with, so it's not something that I really want to understand.' I don't think Freddie is involved with them, has given over to them and has bought it. I don't think he understands it at all," he said
.

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#191 Posted : Saturday, September 8, 2012 7:12:51 AM(UTC)
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THE MASTER Press Conference | Toronto International Film Festival 2012

No Joaquin though! Huh

Edited by user Saturday, September 8, 2012 7:17:57 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline admin  
#192 Posted : Saturday, September 8, 2012 7:30:56 AM(UTC)
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New review of The Master from IGN

The Master Review - The Master is one of the best films of the year: 9.5 / 10

Joaquin Phoenix has "returned" to acting with a performance so staggeringly honest his past transgressions making 2010's I'm Still Here have to be forgiven. He plays Freddie as an open wound with a sad and searching loneliness. This is his story, and Phoenix owns the role.
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Offline sami  
#193 Posted : Saturday, September 8, 2012 1:51:29 PM(UTC)
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admin wrote:
The Venice film festival result are in!

Best Actor: Shared by Joaquin Phoenix and Philip Seymour Hoffman for The Master
Best Director: Paul Thomas Anderson for The Master

Venice Film Festival: Joaquin Phoenix takes Actor prize

Looks like The Master missed out on Best film award at Venice because of a technicality! Glare

"According to The Hollywood Reporter, the jury at the festival, led by Heat director Michael Mann, had originally awarded the top prize of the Golden Lion to Anderson's film, only to change the winner to Korean drama Pieta.

The switch was reportedly due to new festival rules prohibiting a film garnering more than two major awards, and the film had already been awarded the Silver Lion prize for directing, with the acting award being shared jointly between Phoenix and Hoffman."


Venice 2012: 'The Master' has top prize 'rescinded'




Of course they won it. They are going to win everything. They just need to go through the motions now.

I am just tired of talking about this movie and not being able to watch it. I still need to wait a couple of weeks !! I 'm sure once I've seen it I'll have a tone of things to talk about BigGrin It's gonna be great !

Offline sami  
#194 Posted : Sunday, September 9, 2012 9:55:30 AM(UTC)
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American stars Philip Seymour Hoffman and Joaquin Phoenix were named as joint recipients of the Best Actor prize at the Venice Film Festival today.

However with Joaquin absent, it was up to Philip to accept the accolade for both of them as they were celebrated for their performances in The Master.

The film, which was also named Silver Lion for Best Director for Paul Thomas Anderson, was inspired by Scientology founder L Ron Hubbard.


To continue reading click here :

http://www.dailymail.co....BOTH-win-Best-Actor.html

( the pics are horrible ! Poor Phillip! )
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#195 Posted : Sunday, September 9, 2012 12:57:24 PM(UTC)
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Ok, here's another piece that puts the pieces of Joaquin puzzle together. I never thought he'd be a practical person. Last year I did some research to understand cultural differences between continental Europe and USA ways of thinking. It is useful to understand how different people see the world in different ways . In this case it helps understand Joaquin's rejection to rationality. He's an empiricist .
I find that Continental Rationalism and British Empiricism as models of thought are very illustrative.

Rationalism and empiricism are opposed positions within epistemology. The rationalist believes that Pure Reason (i.e. Reason independent of Experience) can yield informative knowledge, knowledge of (some aspects of) the world rather than just of the relations between our concepts. Such rational knowledge is labelled a priori, to indicate that it is prior to and independent of experience. The characteristic marks of a priori knowledge are universality and necessity. When I judge that 2+2 = 4, or that the three angles of a (Euclidean) triangle add up to 180 degrees, I judge that this must be so of all cases, not just that it is so of the cases I have examined. Mathematical knowledge provides the rationalists with their most convincing examples - it is no accident that the rationalist philosophers Descartes and Leibniz were also important mathematicians. Rationalists have claimed that metaphysics, properly pursued, can have the same status as mathematics, i.e. that it too can provide us with a priori knowledge of Reality, e.g. of what substance(s) the world is composed and of the causal relations (if any) between them.
Empiricism is the negation of rationalism. The empiricist insists that all our informative knowledge, all our knowledge of the world, is derived from experience. As for a priori knowledge, it is restricted to what Locke calls ‘trifling’ propositions, eg examples of the law of identity A=A. It follows that speculative metaphysics must be given up: we should not expect to learn substantive truths about, eg God and the soul by means of Pure Reason. In place of traditional metaphysics, the empiricist offers two projects, one constructive, the other critical. The constructive project is a sort of philosophical commentary on the natural sciences, examining their central concepts, their main theses, and their implications for philosophical issues. Much of Locke’s Essay belongs in this tradition. The critical project is eliminative in its aim, examining the claims put forward by metaphysicians and showing that they could not possibly be known on the basis of experience. This is Hume’s project, taken up in the twentieth century by Russell and the logical positivists. In its extreme form, this sort of empiricism dismisses metaphysical claims as not just unknowable but literally meaningless.

In many histories of philosophy, the philosophers of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries are divided into two warring camps: the Continental Rationalists (Descartes, Spinoza, Leibniz) versus the British Empiricists (Locke, Berkeley, Hume), with Kant providing, at the end of the eighteenth century, a synthesis of the opposed traditions. This is undoubtedly an over-simplification: it is easy enough to find elements of empiricism in Descartes and Leibniz, and elements of rationalism in Locke and Berkeley. Some historians of philosophy reject the picture of two warring camps altogether; others think that it still serves a useful purpose so long as it is not taken too seriously. After all, Spinoza and Leibniz did both see themselves as starting from Descartes and correcting what they regarded as mistakes in his reasoning; while Berkeley and Hume certainly saw themselves as starting from Locke and eliminating non-empirical elements remaining in his thought.





In this context Joaquin would be an empiricist. I am a rationalist because I grew up in Europe. What about you Joy ? I think Admin is empiricist ...
Offline sami  
#196 Posted : Sunday, September 9, 2012 2:20:18 PM(UTC)
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What do you think of my discovery? Pretty cool , huh? The things we take for granted ... The key is there !
Of course there are more differences but this one helped me so much !! You think it's all Western but not exactly the same... Americans say Europeans think too much. Well hello, it's because of philosophers who shaped the way we think not because "we are like that" Europeans think Americans are superficial and again it's because English philosophers favored empiricism , the common language influenced the ideas of all English speaking countries. Perhaps this is why the driving manual in Europe is much thicker than in the USA, lol
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#197 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 8:52:17 AM(UTC)
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Some interesting analysis there Sami! Cool

You say a couple of weeks, are you not planning on seeing The Master this week on it's opening weekend? You'll probably be the first to see it out of us, hopefully you'll come back with a glowing review!
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Offline sami  
#198 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 12:37:36 PM(UTC)
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admin wrote:
Some interesting analysis there Sami! Cool


Thank you Admin Cool

admin wrote:
You say a couple of weeks, are you not planning on seeing The Master this week on it's opening weekend?


No , I'm not in NYC . The movie comes to my town on the 21st! I'm not gonna travel to ny for the opening although I was considering it BigGrin

admin wrote:
You'll probably be the first to see it out of us, hopefully you'll come back with a glowing review!


I will probably come back very confused and overwhelmed and I'll need to watch it again , hahaha ! But I'll try not to spoil it for you , ok?
Btw, are you still worried that the movie might not fulfill such high expectations? I remember you mentioning it a couple weeks ago ... but perhaps now , after all the reviews , you think differently. I'm curious ! I just realised you've been quiet lately...Tell us your thoughts please !! BigGrin
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#199 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2012 4:36:10 AM(UTC)
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Hi Sami,

From reading all the reviews and comments from people who have seen The Master, it seems they are all pretty much in agreement that the cinematography is spectacular (especially in 70mm), the musical score is top-notch, the story interesting and the acting is first class. The reviews and comments that do have some criticism of the film, mainly concentrate on the story, in that it is not as strong a screenplay as it maybe could have been.

Having said that, i think i would say the exact same thing about Paul Thomas Anderson's "There will be blood". Which i don't have a problem with, i like the acting and character study in that film, i think i'll probably like The Master for the same reasons Cool

Joaquin's other upcoming film "Her", certainly looks an interesting movie scenario:

Her (2013)

"A lonely writer develops an unlikely relationship with his newly-purchased operating system that's designed to meet his every need."

Definately can't be a version of Microsoft Windows, nobody could ever love a Microsoft operating system Flapper
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#200 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:08:47 AM(UTC)
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All good publicity for The Master film!

"Following last week’s controversial Vanity Fair cover full of Church of Scientology accusations, Scientologists are having yet another bad week in the public eye.

While The Weinstein Co. begins its publicity efforts to promote Paul Thomas Anderson’s The Master, the Church has been preparing their own campaign as Scientologists have been calling, emailing and sending letters to Harvey Weinstein’s studio voicing their objections of the movie’s presentation of their leader, according to The Hollywood Reporter."


Security Increased for Master Premiere After Calls from Angry Scientologists
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